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  #21  
Old 11-21-2009, 07:02 PM
Wenceslaus Wenceslaus is offline
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Originally Posted by rodmonster View Post
Good to know - i can let those i have seen in front of stores, at bus stops (where they put anti Christmas ads on busses), and all over the DC areas know threy can go home now and stop all the screaming since it only applies to govi areas...
All those … what?

If you know of any legal challenges by atheists to nativity scenes placed on private property, please list them.
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  #22  
Old 11-22-2009, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Snow-in-Texas View Post
When was the last time you saw a Bible in a secular school or heard a prayer? But you can learn all about Satan in there, and wichcraft and things like that.


What? Athiest don't believe in Satan so why would the teach about him. I have never heard anyone talk about witchcraft either, unless they where talking about how "Christians" burned supposed witches alive.
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  #23  
Old 11-22-2009, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by gennifyr View Post
Have any of you actually read the book? I have and it's not hijacking Christmas or any doing anything mean or controversial. It's being advertised at Christmas because it is a Christmas themed book.

Why can't you understand that Christmas means something different to everyone? Why does it matter to you how someone else celebrates it? Celebrating Christmas isn't even in the Bible. For the majority, it is a secular holiday. If it's a religious holiday for you, that's fine too. What you do for Christmas is nobody's business but your own.

How can you be up in arms about this imagined hijacking when The Christian version of Christmas was "hijacked" from the pagans in the first place. What about Easter? Even the name is based on a pagan fertility god!

It's unbelievable the amount of intolerance and petty spite that gets spewed in the name of religion.

"Sounds like they need to get a life!"

Right back at you.
I agree with you totally....im a pagan and Christmas means something different to everyone...we should all respect each others beliefs!!
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  #24  
Old 11-22-2009, 10:45 AM
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I have always found religious debate fascinating. From those who don't believe, to those who aren't sure, to those who have faith, to those who are fanatical.

Beliefs today are all over the spectrum. Even within the same religion, divisions exist and fights ensue. From Judaism, to Christianity, to Islam, to the Earth Based Religions and within the Athiest ranks, in-fighting exists.

However, when a common foe approachs, some lines are erased and united front appears to do battle with this common enemy. I have always wondered if these divisions were so easily healed, why fight in the first place?

I will use Christianity as an example, as I am most familiar with it. Pentacostals speak in tongues, while most Baptists do not. Mormons believe Joseph Smith to be a prophet, while Jehovah's Witnesses do not. Baptists immerse for baptism, while Methodists sprinkle. Protestants beliefs wildy vary from Catholics. You see the common theme here. To the outside observer, minute differences, however insiders from the particular denomination may find the other's beliefs blasphemous.

Yet, with all these divisions they claim the same Messiah, Jesus. Or known to Messianic Christians, Yeshua Ha Mashiach (Jesus the Messiah). Perplexing, to say the least.

Divisions, dividing lines, separation all there in one faith. To be fair, all faiths, Islam has several branches,as well as Judaism. Even the non-believers can't agree what to believe in, except what not to believe in. Same goes for other the religions.

I am just using this as an example. So again, back to the common foe, lines are erased and unity is acheived. A new line is drawn to separate the warring faiths or non-faith. Unity is achieved or is it really.

For once this common foe is defeated, the lines within the specific faith reappear. Why? They were just put aside so easily to return so easily.

To answer the question, one must look into themselves and that's not easy to do. What do I believe? When you answer that question, you begin to know yourself. And when you define what you believe, you will be hard pressed to find another that believes exactly the same as you (even within your own church, much less your denomination or faith group).

My point being, we are all different and we all strong willed. We want to right and most want to say that we are right. We want to share our beliefs (as many believe they are commanded to do). There is nothing wrong with that. We just have to realize that we cannot hit someone over the head with a Bible, Koran, Athiest Manifesto, two by four or whatever to share our beliefs. Very few, if any were ever genuinely won to a faith by arguing with them. Respect each other, respect each other's beliefs, share your beliefs and enjoy life. Have a personal relationship with your deity or deities. If you don't have one, enjoy your life to the fullest. Life is too short to be offended by someone elses beliefs. Our beliefs should bring out the best in us, not the worst. So, let us focus on what we have in common, rather than what we don't.

Whatever your beliefs may be, it's hard to argue with what I like to call the three fruits of Christmas.....Peace, Love and Joy! We just have to remember to pick these fruits for ourselves and enjoy them to the fullest.

Merry Christmas my friends!
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  #25  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:02 AM
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Fantastic, Shane!!!!!!!! Thank you for putting everything so neatly and well-expressed

Have a candy-cane
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  #26  
Old 11-22-2009, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlestonNole View Post
"Life is too short "

Unfortunately that one line from the post is my biggest concern. To me its not just about how you want to celebrate....or how you spell Chrismtas..etc...
It is sooooo much deeper than that. the bigger picture does takes precedence in this matter.... life is too short and for those not saved...it will be over. For many Christians such as myself we are saddened by those that are constantly going against God......not just because they are demeaning to our beliefs...but more so that their souls are lost and could be lost forever.
I for one can never smile when i hear an atheist - etc - say Merry Christmas...and not understand what Christmas is truly about....to simplify it as much as possible - its like saying GO COWBOYS and not even knowing what football is, how its played or where it came from.....

I do hope people understand that Christan's are not here to fight you on your atheist (not you of course C-nole) beliefs but to fight to help you save your soul.......

Merry Christmas!
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  #27  
Old 11-22-2009, 03:56 PM
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Thanks Rod. Your post is exactly what I am talking about. Very well thought out and expresses what you believe. Thank you for sharing.

One of Christianity's core beliefs is to preach the Gospel to all of the world. Many take up this sometimes heart wrenching challenge, especially when it comes to their family and friends. Personally, I have seen families torn apart and friendships destroyed because of this commission. What am I saying, am I saying that this teaching of Christ's sacrifice tore apart these families and friends, absolutely NOT. What happened in these cases was that the presentation of the Gospel was not presented in a loving way or a way that conveyed the teaching Jesus. It was presented in more of a I'm right and your wrong attitude. And from the presenter's perspective, I can understand that, but when you are on the other side and hearing, what some have told me, a snobbish, bull-headed attempt, brick on the head approach, no one is going to be receptive.

Also, all we can do is present our beliefs in a loving manner. We must remember that any conversion is not in our hands, but in the hands of God.

Again, I am not picking on Christianity for the sake of picking on Christianity. I am just using the faith as an example in which the people of the West are familiar.

When a person of faith approaches another on behalf of their faith with respect for that person and what they believe, I truly believe that person will listen respectfully. I could be wrong and have been wrong in this respect, but I have found that actions speak louder than words.

Again, nothing wrong with expressing or sharing your faith....but ultimately what a person chooses to believe is up to them.

Free Will is one of God's greatests gifts......at least that's what I believe.

Merry Christmas!
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  #28  
Old 11-22-2009, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rodmonster View Post
Simply said..... Christ = Christmas......it IS the ONLY reason for the season......just because we add fun side items like presents and Santa does not in ANY way override what Christmas is and is about.....

Looks like i have a few more lost souls out there to add to our prayer list....
With that logic, Easter (Oestre) should be a pagan fertility holiday and aren't most of the days of the week representative of various non-Christian gods?

The name is irrelevant. It may be the reason for your celebrations but that is not true for everyone.

"When was the last time you saw a Bible in a secular school or heard a prayer? But you can learn all about Satan in there, and wichcraft and things like that."

Seriously, you really believe that? Bible and prayer are not appropriate in schools or gov because they are diverse places full of many religions. You can't just pick one to preach, it's discriminatory.

"life is too short and for those not saved...it will be over. For many Christians such as myself we are saddened by those that are constantly going against God"

Funny that, my Muslim sister in law claims the same thing if we don't convert to Islam. My neighbour, and I can't remember what religion he is, not any of the big ones, has also said the same.

"Really?
So they have no issues when they are any place else?
They like them in their neighbors yards, at stores, restaurants, churches, etc?
Interesting - didn't know that......"

I don't know anyone that would have a problem with the places you stated. I think the Christmas story is beautiful and have no problem with religious displays. The places listed are private property and whatever goes up is likely to be reflective of the owner's beliefs. The big stores that are all converting to "Happy Holidays" are doing it not because they have this evil hate on for Christmas it's because they want to be inclusive to all beliefs. It's kinda hard to say Happy Christmas, Kwanzaa, Channuka, Solstice, Ramadan... it's easier to combine them all under the theme of holidays.

The bus campaign "don't worry there's probably no god...", was a response to bus ads about going to hell for not believing in god. The group that did it wasn't attacking so much as giving another option to people.

Non believers are not attacking religion (although most like to debate it). There's no evil agenda and we don't need your pity. It is just really frustrating, especially at this time of year to hear about all us evil people trying to bring down Christmas. I'm not sure how to word this, but I think there is less fear, hostility, fighting whatever, between religions than there is between the religious and the non-religious. We seem to **** everyone off just for not believing in something (god related).

For what it's worth, I consider myself a agnostic atheist. I don't believe in the existence of a deity, but I do not claim to know that one does not exist because I don't believe it's scientifically provable, especially in this primitive stage of our evolution.
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2009, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Battles View Post
What? Athiest don't believe in Satan so why would the teach about him. I have never heard anyone talk about witchcraft either, unless they where talking about how "Christians" burned supposed witches alive.

I never said they believed in satan, you obviously missed the point. Whatever, I am done with this thread, it is just causing hard feelings, and I want to enjoy coming here. So any responses to anything I have posted here will not be read by me.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JanaBanana View Post
You want to know what amazes me even more? Is the fact that you haven't posted here in 2 YEARS. {2007} But then you just HAD to come here and "Right back at you" another member that believes JESUS/CHRIST is the reason for THEIR season. OUR season.
I've been busy. I just read the book and felt qualified to respond. The right back at you was not about someone celebrating Jesus as the reason for their season. Again I have no problem with people celebrating their religions, or talking about them or anything like that.

I said "right back at you" to the quote previously posted saying that atheists should get a life. Nobody seems to have a problem putting down the non-religious around here. Someone else said it was hostile but it wasn't meant that way. I just don't understand the obsessing about other people's beliefs when they aren't harming anyone.

But Jana, aren't you the one that in previous years poked fun of "those Atheists" being quick to convert on their death beds? Was that you? That was actually the last post I read on here. The full statement was really awful and inappropriate to make and I stopped coming around. But the Christmas bug has been itching and there are a lack of good Christmas forums so I came crawling back.

I'm sure there will be a snarky comment about how I should leave.
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